Tuesday, August 20, 2013

I Have Been Wrong on Lying - and Drugs and Hookers

How could I not see it all this time?

The Pro-Lying group has finally changed my mind.  They point out that the Church has not defined lying - the Magisterium has not spoken!  (Well, the Ordinary Magisterium has, but we don't count that).

And I'm thrilled to note that the Magisterium has not defined many many things!

Not only can we lie, because the Church hasn't dared to say what "lying" is - but ... but think of the possibilities!

As some of my Facebook friends observed ...

Where is Quadragesimo Hooker? I don't see it. Thus, the Church allows me to pick up hookers.

... and ...

 You can't really know what a hooker is, and look at the nice things God says about Rahab the Harlot in the Old Testament.

My apologies, readers.  I've been wrong all along.


Lie your butts off.

And use hookers.  If you can rationalize the one, you can rationalize the other.

And remember - Jesus Christ is in our corner!

The libs have been right all along too.  Who can say what "contraception" is?  Where does the Church condemn abortion in all circumstances; I mean if you really need an abortion, it's not technically an abortion, is it?  Circumstances and desire trump the Law of God - we all know that.

After all, our faith is all about getting what we want when we want it.  And I was worried about my sins!  Thank God I was so wrong!!!!

... and Mark Shea was wrong, and Scott P. Richert was wrong, and Christopher Tollefsen was wrong, and Dawn Eden was wrong, and St. Thomas Aquinas was wrong, and St. Augustine was wrong, and the Catechism of Trent was wrong, and the Modern Catechism was wrong, and the Bible was wrong, and God was wrong, and ...


Kevin O'Brien said...

Come on, come on, readers! Where's the first, "You are not being charitable" comment? Where's the first "You need to go to confession" comment? Where's the first "I'll pray for you" comment?


jvc said...

I'll paste my Christopher West checklist to the lying debate, since it involves the exact same personalities.

Let the hipster Catholic community tick each off as it comments.

Angry Combox Comment on Lying Checklist

- Irrelevant personal anecdote involving Lying:

- Confound criticism of Lying with opposition to Pro-Lifers:

- Baseless accusation of a lack of evidence, despite numerous, readily available writings by the accused:

- Reference to a clergy or lay member who has endorsed Lying (i.e. argument based on authority):

- Calumnious suggestion of calumny:

- Excerpting something from another language, to demonstrate one's intelligence:

- Demand that the accused go to Confession:

- Sneering suggestion that the accused be charitable:

- Insincere Christian greeting/blessing (e.g. "God bless you."):

jvc said...

I'm glad Deacon JR has the time to blog on the topic, what with raising 13 kids and having to answer questions from Nazi's at the door about how many Jews he is harboring every other day.

Anonymous said...

Well, you are right, but you are being uncharitable. I think you have a tendency for thinking that if you tell the truth you don't need to worry about anything else - you can say it however you want, and you're still in the clear. But that's false - you always have to speak the truth in love. It doesn't matter if you've never held a single incorrect opinion in your entire life about the Faith, but if you don't speak the truth in love it's still nothing more than a clashing cymbal.
Sometimes a properly stern tone is called for but charity is never dispensable. Sneering at Brandon Vogt's 'smug smiling face' does not make you a lone voice crying in the wilderness - it just makes you a jerk. And it's counterproductive to boot.
Are you right about lying? Yep. Are you wrong to act like a jerk to fellow Catholics (or anyone, for that matter) because you're right and they're wrong? Absolutely.


Kevin O'Brien said...

Thanks, Harry, for speaking the truth to me in charity.

FYI, I have taken the snide out of my original post and apologized to Brandon.

Dear readers, please feel free to call me out when I deserve it, like Harry just did.

Del said...

It is okay to be "right" in the principle, and then to realize that you need to lighten up about it -- in charity, in order to persuade more people to see the righteousness of the principle.

On the other hand, I am content to accept that the Holy Spirit has laid this passion on your heart for some purpose. I should work at being more receptive to what the Spirit is trying to say to me, through you.

For my part, I still struggle to see how the undercover work of Lila Rose and Live Action reach the level of "lying." It seems that they present the abortion industry with such typical scenarios as the abortionists are accustomed to dealing with, and the reporters are honest in revealing how the abortionists respond.

They are not afraid to show the world how they are behaving; they release the entire video footage. So at least they are passing the litmus test of "what if mom found out."

Kevin O'Brien said...

Del, it's the teaching I'm defending, not the application. I don't think the sting videos do good, in the long run or even in the short run, but that's not a question of doctrine necessarily. As you know, I was originally a staunch defender of James O'Keefe and the whole sting video thing. I'm not anymore, but I recognize a legitimate case can be made for what they're doing.

My problem is not so much those videos as the theological argument that has sprung from them, which is not about Lila or James per se, but about what the Church teaches. The condemnation of Lying as intrinsically evil is an infallible teaching of the Ordinary Magisterium, and I get my dander up when Catholics - especially clergy - find despicable ways around that, ways that always end up denigrating the Church. It makes me mad when the libs do it and it makes me mad when the conservatives do it.

I also think the videos are examples of "lying", but I can argue that in peace. What I can't stomach is when a deacon - or any Catholic - says, "Well, ignore the Catechism on the question of the morality of lying. It's an open question and we may do as we please."

Thanks for your thoughtful comments, Del - here and elsewhere.

Del said...

Absolutely! On the principle: We cannot do evil acts, even to achieve a good end.

And we cannot tolerate our pastors' sophistry and equivocation as they attempt to baptize a sinful act that some might desire -- like lying, or contraception, or whatever. I join you in this fight!

First we have to know that Lying is a sin.... and only then we can enjoy two cigars and three bottles of wine over a lively discussion as to whether Live Action's "Trafficking" sting approached a sinful level of guile.

Kevin O'Brien said...

Well, we know what lying is, so don't try that old dodge.

Del, my sticky post sums it up - http://thwordinc.blogspot.com/search/label/LYING%20SUMMARIZED

Del said...

THAT was a very good read! Thanks, Kevin!