Wednesday, March 4, 2015

I Am Coming Out of the Closet

Friends, it's time for the charade to end.

I am secretly a leftist.  In fact, a "leftist in disguise".

Sure, I'm pro-life, anti-abortion, anti-contraception, anti-gay "marriage", anti-divorce, pro-Latin Mass and believe in the infallible authority of the Magisterium on matters of Faith and Morals.

But a commenter on Fr. Geiger's blog assures me that I'm a sneaky liberal.

Why?  Because I observed that most "apocalypic millenarians" are right-wingers - which, of course, they are, and which the commenter who slammed me is.  "Apocalyptic millenarians" are those folks who go goofy over the End Times and their supposed immanence.  You know, the type who have an inside scoop on the Second Coming of Christ and all the pain and suffering and eternal damnation it will bring to me and to all those other people they don't like.  Those are "apocalyptic millenarians" and simple observation will show that there are not many Democrats in that camp.

Anyway, it feels good to be a liberal.  Maybe I'll get more friends now.


Anonymous said...

Congratulations, Kevin!

jvc said...

Fr. Geiger strikes me as a tragic figure. Undeniably, absolutely brilliant on some subjects, but dangerously paranoid on others. His observation that a lot of this end of the world stuff is tied in with the charismatics is very perceptive.

When it comes to right-left, I'm increasingly realizing that this paradigm has limited uses. When it comes to theology, I began to realize this during the West debacle. There wasn't necessarily a right or left stance on this. "Normal people" conservatives and liberals immediately got the creeper vibe from him.

I've known quite a few "right-wing" Catholics, typically whom I call hipsters, who are adamantly pro-life and anti-gay marriage, but who dignify free-loading and seem to disregard working for a living, some self-sufficiency. They're obsessed with having babies but those babies often seem to be more numbers than persons.

As to the end of the world people, they're just too optimistic for my tastes. These are people who think it can't get any worse and so we must be in the final end times. I wish I could agree...

Anonymous said...

Congrats - I got my own "You're a leftie sleeper agent!" card a while back from a furiously right-wing Catholic convert who saw through my disguise after I tried to explain that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were war crimes according to the Church's teaching. He wasn't having any of it.

- Harry

Asbury Fox said...

May God have mercy on Fr. Geiger. That tragic and disgusting man was one of those few who led to the destruction of the Franciscans of the Immaculate. Along with something like around a dozen friars, they complained to Rome about their order. They complained about the FFI's use of the TLM and traditional bent. Pope Francis and Rome took action on their behalf over and against the hundreds of friars who had no issue or complaint with the order. Then we all know what happened. The founder was put under house arrest, his family slandered, and the order systematically destroyed.

Anonymous said...

Interesting thoughts Kevin.

When one resigns himself to the belief of a near-looming apocalypse...

he robs himself of the cross.

The cross of having to psychologically deal with the likely prospect of a long life of hardship, and the idea that one's children (and theirs) will probably have to live through an immoral age, worse still indulge in and be part of it.

Qualitatively, it would have been like Christ resigning himself to a quick and painless death and skipping the mental trauma in the Garden of Gethsemane.

- Michael R

Kevin Tierney said...


I still get the "he isn't a real trad" thing all the time, despite me being pro-latin mass for the last 13 years, attack more apologists before 6am than they do their entire life, not the largest fan of Vatican II, and one of the original trad bloggers.

More or less the reason why is because I'm only mildly pessimistic about the current pope, and I don't think everyone attending the New Mass is going to hell. They aren't so much as dejected right-winger millenials, but either codgy get off my lawn elderly types, socially akward young kids, or people who are just going through a legit bad time and grow out of it. Very few people stay in such a bleak fatalstic wordlview.

Kevin O'Brien said...

Asbury Fox, the order has not been systematically destroyed. It still exists.

You make it sound as if Fr. Geiger objected to the use of the Extraordinary Form of the Mass. He celebrated that form for decades as one of the first members of the order. Why would he suddenly object to it?

I love the Latin Mass, but some of its adherents are not what you might call balanced or even completely sane. It's a shame, as the beauty and dignity of the Extraordinary Form gets short shrift because of them.

I don't know what the full story is with the FFI, but Fr. Geiger does not strike me as a "disgusting" man. He may be tragic, but that's because he's in the midst of something like a Shakespearian tragedy playing out around him.

Sebonde said...

You're pro-Latin Mass? Are you going to the Oratory now, or are you attending the Novus Ordo celebrated in Latin by our favorite Torture Priest?

Asbury Fox said...

Fr. Manelli, the founder, favored the TLM Mass. Had Summorum Pontificum, been available when he founded the order in the 70's, it would have been with that rite. At the time, the lie existed that the TLM had been abrogated. Fr. Manelli and the Italian FFIs were favoring the TLM and 1962 breviary. Given time, the whole order might have made the switch to the exclusive use of the TLM Mass and '62 breviary. Some of the American FFIs were not happy with this direction. They were formed and liked the Novus Ordo and liturgy of the hours. Fr. Geiger was part of a small group that accused Manelli and the FFIs of being against the Pope, bishops, Vatican II and also being crypto Lefebvrian. All because of their traditional views and their movement toward tradition in liturgy. If the order wanted to move towards exclusive use of the 1962 sacraments, that was their prerogative. It would have been an internal matter within the order. The order with the friars would have to have made the decision. They could also have stayed bi-ritual with both Masses and books. Instead of letting things take their course, this small group complained and whined to Rome. Rome under Francis set out to crush this growing, flourishing traditional order. One of the few signs of life in the Church, bereft of any growth in religious life. If Geiger and his gang of friars were unhappy with the order, and the direction of the order, they should have left the order. There is no shortage of other orders, including Franciscan orders. That would have been the decent and honest thing to do.

The order has been systematically destroyed. Sure it still exists, in a sad and severely restricted state. Their community life and freedom restricted by draconian measures. Vocations have been affected and numerous current friars are desperate looking for bishops to take them in and leave the order because of the Vatican persecution. Many have left already.

Kevin O'Brien said...

Asbury, what's your source for all this?

Asbury Fox said...

There have been numerous blogs that have reported on the FFI situation. Rorate has been in the forefront in reporting on this situation. I have seen some of this info on patheos, and personal blogs in addition to Rorate's reporting.

Kevin O'Brien said...

Asbury, you are slandering a man you don't even know. Your information comes third hand from at least one source that is suspect (Rorate).

I know Fr. Geiger well enough to say that your characterization of his role in the troubles at FFI makes no sense and does not comport with his behavior in either his published writing or in his private correspondence. I know absolutely nothing of the situation within the FFI. But I do know Fr. Geiger, and the character he has is not the character you assign to him.

I have people on this blog and on Facebook tell me frequently that I need to "go to confession" because I say things that they disagree with. But, dear Asbury, what you are doing in these comment boxes is something that actually deserves that sort of rebuke. You do not know Fr. Geiger and you do not know the situation in his order; based entirely upon a kind of gossip, and a gossip that Fr. Geiger himself has rebutted again and again, you denigrate publicly another human being and in doing so you poison the reputation of a Catholic priest. This is not the sort of behavior that should be taken lightly.


Enough of that. What I now say, I say as a fellow Traditionalist.

Salvation is not by means of the Latin language, nor by means of the "Extraoridnary Form" and only the "Extraordinary Form" (what you might call the "Sola Latina" position), which is, after all, the very Mass that gave birth to Vatican II.

I love the Latin Mass and abhor the liturgical abuses that are rampant at the majority of Catholic parishes in America. But this is not merely a problem of the form of worship; it is a problem of the content of belief. To focus on the form alone is to put your faith in what could degenerate into mere aesthetics.

Do not sacrifice another human being on the altar of aesthetics. Our Faith is more than the Mass. And, beautiful as the Latin Mass is, if it produces ugliness in our hearts, then something is wrong.