Jesus Speaks on the Lying Debate

He speaks here on the Situation in General as well as the Situation in Particular.  (ht Frank Weathers)

Mark Holgate is right.  Catholics need to begin reading the Bible seriously - or at least begin reading the Bible.

Jesus says ...

My teaching is not mine but his who sent me. Anyone who resolves to do the will of God will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own. Those who speak on their own seek their own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and there is nothing false in him. - John 7:16-18

Or better yet from Msgr. Knox's translation (ht Joe Grabowski) ...

"Jesus answered, 'The learning which I impart is not my own, it comes from him who sent me. Anyone who is prepared to do his will, can tell for himself whether such learning comes from God, or whether I am delivering a message of my own. The man who delivers a message of his own seeks to win credit for himself; when a man seeks to win credit for one who sent him, he tells the truth, there is no dishonesty in him." 

That Nagging Voice of God

This is from an article I wrote for an upcoming issue of The St. Austin Review

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Reaction against Catholic teaching is very strong, perhaps no stronger than among the laity within the Church itself.

As I wrote elsewhere, our attitude in today's culture is not simply I-Want-What-I-Want-When-I-Want-It but, "I want this, and therefore it must be morally good, and if it ain't, well, a little Mental Hopscotch will fix that!"

In other words, I want to do it so it must be good!

This sleight of hand we play in our minds tells us two thing, two very opposite things

1. We all want to do stuff that's bad (this is the Catholic doctrine of Original Sin)

2. We are all driven to rationalize our sins and convince ourselves that what's bad is good - so that we may do it and feel good about ourselves.

While such a one-two punch could easily send any observer of human nature into a kind of

despair, there is something very telling about Number Two.

If Fact Number One proves Original Sin, Fact Number Two proves the existence of God - or at least comes pretty darned close.  For if we didn’t have a Conscience, we wouldn’t need to keep appeasing it.  And Conscience is nothing less than the Voice of God within us.

The Church writes, in Gauduium et Spes, and affirms in the Catechism (paragraph 1776)

"Deep within his conscience man discovers a law which he has not laid upon himself but which he must obey. Its voice, ever calling him to love and to do what is good and to avoid evil, sounds in his heart at the right moment. . . . For man has in his heart a law inscribed by God. . . . His conscience is man's most secret core and his sanctuary. There he is alone with God whose voice echoes in his depths.”

Thus I have noticed what stands as the single most frustrating thing within the Catholic Church in America.  It’s not bad catechesis, bad bishops, the sex scandals, or the liturgical wars.  It’s lay Catholics behaving badly and spending their time convincing themselves they’re the True Catholics and all the others are False.

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Bible Verses Against Lying

Thanks to Richard Anthony for compiling these.

The next time you hear that the Bible is filled with people who are lying and finding approval from God by lying, quote a few dozen of these ...

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour" (Exodus 20:16, the eighth Commandment)."…true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth" (John 4:23-24).

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Leviticus 6:1-4, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, If a soul sin, and commit a trespass against the LORD, and lie unto his neighbour…or hath deceived his neighbour…and lieth concerning it, and sweareth falsely; in any of all these that a man doeth, sinning therein: Then it shall be, because he hath sinned, and is guilty,"Leviticus 19:11, "Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another."
Job 11:3,5, "Should thy lies make men hold their peace? and when thou mockest, shall no man make thee ashamed? But oh that God would speak, and open his lips against thee;"
Job 13:4, "But ye are forgers of lies, ye are all physicians of no value."
Job 24:25, "...who will make me a liar, and make my speech nothing worth?"
Psalms 24:4-5, "He…who hath not…sworn deceitfully. He shall receive the blessing from the LORD,"
Psalms 31:6, "I have hated them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD."
Psalms 31:18, "Let the lying lips be put to silence;"
Psalms 40:4, "Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies."
Psalms 52:2-4, "Thy tongue deviseth mischiefs; like a sharp razor, working deceitfully. Thou lovest evil more than good; and lying rather than to speak righteousness. Selah. Thou lovest all devouring words, O thou deceitful tongue."
Psalms 58:3, "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."
Psalms 59:12, "For the sin of their mouth and the words of their lips let them even be taken in their pride: and for cursing and lying which they speak."
Psalms 62:3-4, "… ye shall be slain all of you…they delight in lies: they bless with their mouth, but they curse inwardly."
Psalms 63:11, "...the mouth of them that speak lies shall be stopped."
Psalms 101:7, "He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight."
Psalms 109:2, "For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue."
Psalms 119:29, "Remove from me the way of lying: and grant me thy law graciously."
Psalms 119:69, "The proud have forged a lie against me: but I will keep thy precepts with my whole heart."
Psalms 119:163, "I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love."
Psalms 120:2, "Deliver my soul, O LORD, from lying lips, and from a deceitful tongue."
Proverbs 6:16-19, "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."
Proverbs 8:7, "For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips."
Proverbs 10:18, "He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool."
Proverbs 12:19, "The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment."
Proverbs 12:22, "Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight."
Proverbs 13:5, "A righteous man hateth lying: but a wicked man is loathsome, and cometh to shame."
Proverbs 14:5, "A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies."
Proverbs 14:25, "A true witness delivereth souls: but a deceitful witness speaketh lies."
Proverbs 17:4, "A wicked doer giveth heed to false lips; and a liar giveth ear to a naughty tongue."
Proverbs 17:7, "Excellent speech becometh not a fool: much less do lying lips a prince."
Proverbs 19:5, "A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape."
Proverbs 19:9, "A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish."
Proverbs 19:22, "The desire of a man is his kindness: and a poor man is better than a liar."
Proverbs 21:6, "The getting of treasures by a lying tongue is a vanity tossed to and fro of them that seek death."
Proverbs 26:28, "A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin."
Proverbs 29:12, "If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked."
Proverbs 30:6, "Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."
Proverbs 30:8, "Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:"
Isaiah 28:15,17, "Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement;…for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:…the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place."
Isaiah 30:9, "That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:"
Isaiah 32:7, "The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right."
Isaiah 44:24-25, "…I am the LORD…That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad;"
Isaiah 59:2-4, "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. For…your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness...they trust in vanity, and speak lies; "
Isaiah 59:12-13, "For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them; In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood."
Isaiah 63:8, "For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour."
Jeremiah 7:4, "Trust ye not in lying words,"
Jeremiah 7:8-9, "Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. Will ye…swear falsely…and walk after other gods…?"
Jeremiah 9:3, "And they bend their tongues like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; for they proceed from evil to evil, and they know not me, saith the LORD."
Jeremiah 9:5, "And they will deceive every one his neighbour, and will not speak the truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity."
Jeremiah 14:14, "Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart."
Jeremiah 15:18, "Why is my pain perpetual, and my wound incurable, which refuseth to be healed? wilt thou be altogether unto me as a liar, and as waters that fail?"
Jeremiah 16:19, "...Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit."
Jeremiah 23:14, "I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies:"
Jeremiah 23:26, "How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;"
Jeremiah 23:32, "Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD."
Jeremiah 27:10, "For they prophesy a lie unto you, to remove you far from your land; and that I should drive you out, and ye should perish."
Jeremiah 29:23, "Because they have committed villany in Israel, and have committed adultery with their neighbours' wives, and have spoken lying words in my name, which I have not commanded them; even I know, and am a witness, saith the LORD."
Ezekiel 13:8, "Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD."
Ezekiel 13:19, "And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?"
Ezekiel 13:22-23, "Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life: Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD."
Ezekiel 22:28, "And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken."
Ezekiel 24:12, "She hath wearied herself with lies, and her great scum went not forth out of her: her scum shall be in the fire."
Daniel 11:27, "…and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper:"
Hosea 4:2, "By swearing, and lying…they break out and blood toucheth blood."
Hosea 7:3, "They make the king glad with their wickedness, and the princes with their lies."
Hosea 10:13, "Ye have plowed wickedness, ye have reaped iniquity; ye have eaten the fruit of lies: because thou didst trust in thy way, in the multitude of thy mighty men."
Jonah 2:8, "They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy."
Micah 6:12-13, "…the inhabitants thereof have spoken lies, and their tongue is deceitful in their mouth. Therefore also will I make thee sick in smiting thee, in making thee desolate because of thy sins."
Nahum 3:1, "Woe to the bloody city! it is all full of lies"
Zephaniah 3:13, "The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth:"
Zechariah 8:16, "These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour;"
Zechariah 13:3, "...Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: "
Malachi 2:6, "The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips:"
Matthew 15:19, "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts…false witness…These are the things which defile a man: "
John 8:44, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
Acts 5:3, "...why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, "
Acts 26:25, "But he [Paul] said, I am not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness."
Romans 1:24-25, "…through the lusts of their own hearts…Who changed the truth of God into a lie,"
Romans 9:1, "I say the truth in Christ, I lie not,"
2 Corinthians 11:31, "The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not."
Galatians 1:20, "Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not."
Ephesians 4:25, "Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another."
Colossians 3:9, "Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;"
1 Timothy 1:9-10, "…the law is not made for a righteous man, but…for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"
1 Timothy 2:7, "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not)"
1 Timothy 4:2, "Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;"
James 3:14, "But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth."
Titus 1:2, "...God…cannot lie, "
Hebrews 6:18, "...in which it was impossible for God to lie, "
1 John 1:6, "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"
1 John 2:4, "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
1 John 2:21, "I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth."
1 John 2:22, "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son."
1 John 2:27, "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."
1 John 4:20, "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?"
Revelation 2:2, "…thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:"
Revelation 3:9, "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which…do lie;"
Revelation 21:8, "…and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:"
Revelation 21:27, "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."
Revelation 22:14-15, "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are…whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."


Judgment In the New Testament books, there is an example of two people lying, Ananias and his wife Sapphira. Both of their lives were taken away by the Lord for lying. We should take to heart this example and understand how much God hates lying.

Acts 5:1-11, "But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things."

The Lying Debate has Moved from Mental Gymnastics to Blasphemy

Over at the Ink Desk, Colin Jory writes about The Demand for Social Assurance that Abortion and Sexual Evils are OK. 

I recall a friend telling in the 1970s of her experiences when trying to present the Church’s teachings on marriage to a school religious education class here in Canberra. The response was aggressive hostility from some (Catholic) girls: “My older sister/brother is living with her/his boyfriend/girlfriend because they are not yet ready to get married. Are you trying to say that she/he is in mortal sin?” “My older sister/brother and her husband/wife are practising contraception because they can’t yet afford to have a baby. Are you trying to say that she/he is in mortal sin?”

Compare this to the Lying Debate.  As I wrote elsewhere ...

I want this, and therefore it must be morally good, and if it ain't, well, a little Mental Hopscotch will fix that!

(For example, that's what I believe is going on in some catechetical circles regarding sex - the attempt to baptize lust; and certainly that's what the Lying Apologists are up to, as are those who complain about Church teaching on abortion and contraception: I want to do it so it must be good!)

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But I want to end my far-too-many posts on this subject with a challenge to Deacon Jim.  I have known him for years and worked with him on a radio project that has quite a few loyal listeners.  I know that in his heart he longs for Jesus Christ and prides himself on being a good Catholic.

Deacon Jim, please do me one favor.

When your fellow Lying Apologists pipe up with, LYING'S OK 'CAUSE JESUS LIED, TOO!!! - will you please protect the honor of Our Lord and Savior and distance yourself from that?  I mean, it's one thing to play mental hopscotch to rationalize a venial sin that we all know to be wrong just because you and others are fond of Lila Rose & James O'Keefe and their well-intentioned but misguided tactics.

It's quite another when you move from mental gymnastics to blasphemy.

To claim that Jesus was a liar is blasphemy pain and simple.

No cause is worth that, my friend.  Redeem your own dignity and renounce those on your side of this movement who claim that "Jesus lied" is a sentence that any Catholic can say in good conscience, or even entertain in his mind.

The rest of this has all been a kind of annoying game, really.  An annoying game that I am very tired of playing.  Lie if you want to, big deal.  Everybody does it and no amount of arguing about it will change human behavior.  Everybody sins and everybody rationalizes their sins.  We've gotten worked up about it, you and I and others, but it's not as serious as we're making it.

But making a case for Lying by calling Jesus Christ a liar - that is serious.  That is more than just playing with words and definitions.  That is an assault on the Sacred Heart Himself.

Please join with me and when you write about this again elsewhere (since I've banned you from commenting here), please make it clear that Our Lord must not be vilified simply for us to feel good about ourselves.  He went through that once on a cross, and there's no need for us to do it to Him again.

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ADDENDUM: Don't believe the liars.  The Bible condemns lying over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.  For proof, see my latest post.

Various Observations

• My greatest fear - the automatic Facebook status update, "Kevin O'Brien listened to Percy Faith on Spotify."

• If you ever doubt that we're in need of salvation - if you ever start to think that mankind ain't so bad after all - if you ever begin to feel warm and fuzzy toward your neighbor, I have the cure for you. Spend some time on the internet.

• The lower the self-esteem, the greater the ego.

• If we had nothing else to go on but the existence of love, we would have evidence of God.

• Living the Lie is devotion to Unreality. And perhaps the greatest form of hell is this - what we do to others, we are forced by some inexorable law to do to ourselves.  It's bad enough to lie to our neighbor: but in hell you'll find thousands of liars running around all day long lying to themselves, repeating the same empty lies over and over again.  In this debate, if you'll listen closely, you'll hear them murmur, "It's not really a lie and anyway it's OK to lie.  It's not really a lie and anyway it's OK to lie.  It's not really a lie and anyway it's OK to lie."  Yes, I get mad that they keep trying to fool to me - but imagine how they feel going around all day and night trying to fool themselves.

A Calm and Reasoned Response

Fr. Maurer quite simply sums it up.  Lying is intrinsically evil and the Magisterium is firm on that.

And the best the commenters can do is come back with ...

1. Jesus lied
2. The Catechism doesn't mean what it says it means

Number two we've been dealing with for years now.  My first post on this subject (in February of 2011)  came from my shock that so-called Orthodox Catholics would so easily sacrifice Church Teaching to shore up their agendas - "We are not obligated to follow the teachings of the Catechism," are the immortal words that opened my eyes to how Protestant this group really is.

But if Deacon Jim Russell's supporters are seriously asserting that Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, who died for us on a cross and who offers us eternal life, was a Filthy Liar, may God have mercy on their souls.

Meanwhile, the paralyzed husband of Ruby the Slut is forced to listen to her call out the name BARABBAS! as she climaxes in the upstairs bedroom.

A Guest Post from Ruby's Husband

I knew she was doing the mailman.

He's handsome and he's got a steady job, after all.

And it's hard to love a man whose legs are bent and paralyzed.  After all, that crazy Asian war did me wrong, and Ruby's a young woman with a young woman's needs.

But I didn't know she was doing the meth addict teen from the halfway house.  And the plumber.  And the four Mexican guys who cut our neighbor's lawn.  And our neighbor.

And when she got all worked up on the internet - well, I knew she was a bit unbalanced with all that world wide web stuff.  I knew she liked those smooth talkers who were telling her that she could be a good wife and do whatever - and whomever - she wanted.  Torture, lying, sin-your-way-to-salvation - all that stuff appealed to her, body and soul.

But who is this "Barabbas" and why is she so hot for him?  And why does she call out his name in the bedroom at night?

Ruby, hon, I'm starting to feel like you're a "ho" and I'm Hosea.

Ruby, taking her love to town.