Friday, April 12, 2013

More from Facebook

I swear I am not making this up.

A Facebook friend who refers to the Holocaust as "a historical CLAIM" said the following to me.

X:  How can you say I am an anti-semite?  What do you mean by "Jew"?  What do you mean by "anti-semite"?
KEVIN:  Someone told me that you believe that Obama won the election because the Jews wanted him to.  If that's true, what do you mean by "Jew"?
X:  Not a single president since WWII has won for any other reason.  (inserts link to a website that blames the Jews for the Holocaust)
KEVIN:  Do you want to take your comment and link down?  I won't, as it proves my point, but it's making you look pretty bad, so you might want to.
X:  I can believe in unicorns if I want to, can't I? So what if I say JFK was shot by the Massad? That's the freedom we have and enjoy by the blood shed by so many...

In other words, the Jews elected Kennedy and then the Jewish secret police assassinated Kennedy.

You can't make this stuff up.

Oh, and Mr. X is a rad trad Catholic.  And yet all of my rad trad friends are telling me, "I have never met a Jew hater among Catholic traditionalists."  Well, that's the ONLY PLACE I meet them.



ColdStanding said...

There were Jew haters when we had the old mass. There are still Jew-haters with practically no old mass around. Changing mass styles has not cured them of their fault. Therefore, I want the old mass back. The fact that Jew-haters like the old mass is not sufficient grounds to leave me and many others dying of thirst for a rich, hearty, traditional Catholic worship.

I don't care if my syllogism is false. I want the old mass back. Should not have messed with the mass.

Kevin Tierney said...


Out of all the traditionalists that you know in person, how many have had anti-semitic views/

Now out of the traditionalists you know on the internet, how many harbor anti-semitic views? If your any bit like me and a lot of others, the numbers for the latter are a lot higher.

In the end, it is a problem no matter what venue it is on. But the venue is important, as it allows the problem to be identified and remedied appropriately. A problem that is endemic at the parish level requires a far different response than one which is more limited (yet deeper with far more heat) in scope.

Tancred said...

I'm more worried about Catholic haters like the moral dwarves who populate this blog.

Kevin O'Brien said...

Tancred, above, who refers to me and my readers as "moral dwarves" is the author of The Eponymous Flower blog, and is furious with Dawn Eden for being a Jewish convert to the Faith who points out that one should not take reports by Holocaust Deniers without extreme skepticism, if at all. He also characterizes Simcha Fischer as "hysterical", when she condemns antisemitism with a firm and unwavering voice.

Here's how Tancred argues (bear with me) ...

"Furthermore, a hysterical Simcha Fisher utters a demand that there ought to be some kind of public outcry against the evils of anti-Semitism. We’ve noted in the past here on this blog that it’s difficult, if impossible, in great part because official mouthpieces don’t help much, that violations of Catholic doctrine, liturgical rubrics, veritable insults against Christ Himself, go unpunished and unanswered by those in positions of authority time and time again, while faithful priests are punished in turn, sometimes at the urging of people like NCR and Patheos bloggers. ..."

[Who is he talking about here? Our criticism of Fr. Corapi? What "faithful priests" are we bringing down?]

"... We expect that even if there is an official concern about unfounded charges of anti-Semitism by Neoconservative journalists ..."

[What the ??? If the bloggers he's referring to are anything, it ain't Neoconservative. And "unfounded" charges of antisemitism? Mr. Tancred, read my posts on this, read what my rad trad friends are saying about the Jews on Facebook, read your own stuff and tell me this is "unfounded".]

" ... we’re not sure how they would enforce a principle which isn’t part of the deposit of faith or if a canonical proceeding could handle such a thing."

[I may be a "moral dwarf", but Tancred is actually saying NOTHING IN CATHOLIC DOCTRINE PREVENTS JEW HATERS FROM HATING JEWS (when in fact everything in Catholic doctrine does) AND EVEN IF IT DID THERE'S NOTHING IN CANON LAW ABOUT IT! Unbelievable.]

"In any event, many real violations of doctrine take place virtually every day and go unpunished, so we can’t imagine how this charge of anti-semitism could be enforced even if it were the problem the often emotive Simcha Fisher insists it is."

[Tancred, I don't give a fig if a bishop condemns people like you and other antisemitics and apologists for Jew Haters. This is not a question for the Church hierarchy. It's a question for the normal and sane laity. It's time we got off our asses and showed you and your ilk the door. Bishops and priests? No, moms and dads and neighbors. Those are the people who should condemn you and those like you who are making room for and excusing this vile poison.]

In other words the gist of Tancred's argument is as follows - "It is wrong to get emotional about Jew haters when there are so many liturgical abuses going on and anyway Holocaust Denial is not a position contrary to Catholic dogma so why bring it up?"

Tancred then goes on in boldface to encourage his readers ("moral giants", I presume, as opposed to my readers)to complain to EWTN for publishing the National Catholic Register.

So, remember, friends, the problem is not antisemites in Traditionalism. The problem is the bloggers who point it out.

Philip said...

I've been attending EF mass for the past year. I've met some Gilsonian Thomists, but not a single anti-semite. I've seen some traditionalist "Catholic" websites on the internet that contain anti-semitic material, however, so I have no doubt it exists in some circles.

But speaking as a guy who grew up in a predominately Jewish neighborhood and was received into the Church by the priest who is the head of interfaith dialogue in my diocese, I don't see anything anti-semitic in the EF mass itself. The "perfidious Jews" prayer has been revised, and frankly, the EF's reverencr FAR outstrips anything I've seen at other masses. For a convert like me, the EF mass is the most edifying mass I've gone to.


Kevin O'Brien said...

I agree, Philip. That's why I love the EF Mass as well.

lauermar said...

At this time in the Year Of Faith, I must implore you to curtail your witch-hunting and passing judgement on others. Instead, try to shore up and promote the faith! Stop the uncharitable generalizations. You claim you haven't met a traditional Catholic that wasn't anti-semite, then you have only met Catholics in name only until now. Today you have met one. I don't deny the Holocaust, I have a family member who died there. So please. Give it a rest, stop the calumny, and pray for conversions.

Kevin O'Brien said...

The next time you lecture me on how sinful I am, Lauermar, read what I wrote. I did NOT say I have never met a traditionalist who was not an antisemite. I DID say I have not met an antisemite who was not a radical traditionalist. Perhaps that distinction is beyond you. But again, keep telling yourself the problem is not antisemitism in the Church. The problem is bloggers pointing it out.